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Panel Percentage Utilization

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Panel Percentage Utilization

Post Posted: 22.03.2011 17:28

After completing an optimization sufficient utilization is listed as a percent. This percent only applies if the raw panel is shortened to the used length. Shouldn’t this percent apply to the entire panel if the selection to “shorten raw panel to used length” is set to “No”? For example, if the optimization nests an 8x8 panel in an 8 x16 raw panel, the utilization percent should be 50%, not 100%.

BrianM
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Re: Panel Percentage Utilization

Post Posted: 22.03.2011 18:00

The sufficient utilization is always applied to the shortened panel because the other part of the panel can be usded for the next optimization. This part of the panel is no waste (do you use this word?) and so it is not included into the percent.
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Re: Panel Percentage Utilization

Post Posted: 22.03.2011 18:50

In our case it is waste. We don't have the room to keep the "drops" off panels to be reused on another job that might be a month or more away. So we laminate panels to the size - of best optimization in 2' increments from 8' to 24'. So typically the waste is less than 2' (off the end of the panel).

Is this an option that could be added?

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Re: Panel Percentage Utilization

Post Posted: 22.03.2011 20:41

I do not understand your last post. What do you want to have added in the program?
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Re: Panel Percentage Utilization

Post Posted: 22.03.2011 23:28

Can you add the option to show utilization percetage of panel being used as explained in my first post? An 8x8 panel in an 8x16 raw panel should be 50% utilization.

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Re: Panel Percentage Utilization

Post Posted: 23.03.2011 07:53

I will discuss it with my collegues.
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Re: Panel Percentage Utilization

Post Posted: 23.03.2011 14:12

Thanks. Staying on this same topic I want to say that there's another issue with the way we optimize and the way the programming is written for optimization. It has to do with the reason you said waste can be used for the next optimization and that's why such a high yield is shown for an 8x8 panel being nested in an 8x16 and that's exacty the problem.

For example:
If sufficient utilization is set to 95% and I optimize (4) 8x8 panels and my available material is 8x16, instead of optimizing (2) 8x8 panels in an 8x16 raw panels, it will only optimize (1) panel in an 8x16 because it thinks its ok because the sufficient utilization is 100%, when i fact it's not ok. It's forcing me to use more material than i need. Now, this situation doesn't happen every time, but it does happen and it is a problem since we don't use waste like you said the optimization is programmed to do.

I think "max operation time" is also a factor because i don't know how much time to allow so that i get the best yield.

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Re: Panel Percentage Utilization

Post Posted: 23.03.2011 14:24

The optimization is not programmed to use waste. It is programmed to use as less material as possible. The user is able to decide that he wants to use the waste if he uses big raw panels.
If you again have an example where the panels are not optimized correctly please send the position and your settings for the optimization.
Perhaps another setting avoids the correct optimization. This could be the distance between the panels or the distance of the panels to the border of the raw panel.
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Re: Panel Percentage Utilization

Post Posted: 23.03.2011 16:05

See the attached file. When I optimize I make the following raw panels lengths available: 8'/14'/16'/18'/20'/24'
See nestings: 22/24/25/34-46/49-50/56-59. These are all nestings that used a 14' raw panel. The used length on these nestings are under 10'.
Why weren't the panels doubled up to use the available 20' raw panels?

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Re: Panel Percentage Utilization

Post Posted: 23.03.2011 17:06

The program does not use all raw panels which are available. It uses the first length which fits. If the program would try to use all lengths the optimization would need much more time. The program would have to test all raw panel lengths with all panels and the next explosion of tests would be a mix (I don't know if this would be possible) of some panels in this raw panel and some in another raw panel.
I think it is not possible to do that in a time which would be ok for the users and I even do not know if it is possible to make a program for that.
In such a case as you describe it above you have to help for a good optimization. You could optimize some panels with the raw panels you feel best and then the other panels with other raw panels.


(I hope that my english is good enough to understand what I mean. English was not my prefered class at school. Very Happy )
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Re: Panel Percentage Utilization

Post Posted: 23.03.2011 17:37

Your english is fine and understand what you're saying, but what you are saying is a huge issue for us.
"The program does not use all raw panels which are available"
-Why not? Isn't that the whole point of having optimization?

"It is programmed to use as less material as possible"
Then this statement is not true because it's not using all the material available.

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Re: Panel Percentage Utilization

Post Posted: 23.03.2011 18:58

BrianM:

"The program does not use all raw panels which are available"
-Why not? Isn't that the whole point of having optimization?
Because this would make the optimization even more complicated as it is right now. I tried to explain the problems to do that more complicated optimization. I am sorry but this is not possible for the moment.
I tried to explain how you can do that by selecting the panels and the raw panels.

BrianM:

"It is programmed to use as less material as possible"
Then this statement is not true because it's not using all the material available.
It is true inside the boundery conditions I explained above.
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Joachim Neumann (Dietrich's AG)
Software für den Holzbau, Abbund, Holzrahmenbau, Blockbau, Ingenieurholzbau und für die Fertighausindustrie

if (ahnung == 0) { read "Tipps & Tricks"; use SEARCH; use Blog; } else { use brain; make post; }

Joachim Neumann
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Re: Panel Percentage Utilization

Post Posted: 23.03.2011 19:30

Joachim Neumann:
In such a case as you describe it above you have to help for a good optimization. You could optimize some panels with the raw panels you feel best and then the other panels with other raw panels.)

Do you have any more suggestions to help get the best yield out of our situation?

BrianM
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Re: Panel Percentage Utilization

Post Posted: 23.03.2011 21:02

No not realy but I do not know your whole situation.
I would optimize all big, rectangular panels in raw panels where the panels fit good.
Then I would optimize all the other panels in raw panels as big as possible.
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Joachim Neumann (Dietrich's AG)
Software für den Holzbau, Abbund, Holzrahmenbau, Blockbau, Ingenieurholzbau und für die Fertighausindustrie

if (ahnung == 0) { read "Tipps & Tricks"; use SEARCH; use Blog; } else { use brain; make post; }

Joachim Neumann
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Re: Panel Percentage Utilization

Post Posted: 24.03.2011 23:46

Joachim Neumann:
No not realy but I do not know your whole situation.

Here is the situation:
#1. The goal is to have the best material yield.
#2. The size of the material is 8'x8'/14'/16'/18'/20'/24'.
#3. The amount of material available is whatever it take to achieve #1.
#4. Material "drop" or "waste" is thrown away, we typically do not use it for another job.
Joachim Neumann:
If the program would try to use all lengths the optimization would need much more time.
#5. We can let the optimization run overnight in needed.

Please let me know if you have any more questions.

Also, Joachim you have an open invitation to come to Holland Michigan to see for yourself our situation.

BrianM
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